I don’t know how people come to think that Snape joined the death eaters because “Lily didn’t like him back”.
To make it clear, he made a grave mistake and I do not excuse it in any way, but if you want to understand the reasons for him breaking bad (I love the series lol), you may want to look at what’s canon instead:
- His motivation to join was that he wanted to be part of something powerful. It’s easy to see why: he felt powerless literally all his life, being neglected and probably abused at home and bullied and sexually assaulted at school. Craving for something that gives him power and respect was a mechanism of compensation and that is very common among people who experienced traumata.
That’s why I’m convinced that if he had gotten professional help or if there had been something or someone else that made him feel valued and respected, he wouldn’t have necessarily made the decision to become a death eater. It’s still possible that he still would have become one, but the chance that he wouldn’t have made that decision, would have notably increased.
- He never told Lily about his feelings for her and the reasons are quite obvious: He felt powerless all the time, he was constantly told that he’s ugly and disgusting and the inferiority complex he developed because of that alone would have kept him from bringing up such a topic. Plus, his best friend was one of the most popular girls at school. Of course he thought that he didn’t have a chance anyway.
Besides, victims of trauma aren’t known for spilling the beans in an environment where they feel insecure and threatened. Imagine what would have happened if he had told her, and someone had overheard their conversation. The whole school would have laughed at him.
As we know, Lily would have developed deeper feelings for him though, if he hadn’t made the wrong decisions, so maybe it would have been better to talk to her about that.
But the point is, there was never a canon debate of her “liking him back” or not. He didn’t even consider that.
- After the end of their friendship, Snape never showed any signs of frustration. He knew that he made an unforgivable mistake,so he respected her wish and left her alone. He neither tried to bargain with her, nor did he take it out on another student.
There may be a connection between Lily ending the friendship and him joining the death eaters, but I think this connection is that that Lily was the only positive aspect of his life and after her ending the friendship he hadn’t anything left that could have made him display his good character traits and therefore he spent even more time with the wrong people (because at least they were the only people to talk to him and to value his skills) and eventually let them convince him to join the death eaters, what, like a said, was also a mechanism of compensation for him due to the events of his childhood and youth.
That is not meant to excuse him but it is evident that one’s childhood has a great influence on a person’s life in the future.
I can’t believe I’m referring to Sirius Black in a post about Snape but I think Snape is one of the characters that show how accurate his quote is.
“We’ve all got both light and dark inside us. What matters is the part we choose to act on. That’s who we really are.“
Like I said, Lily was the positive influence on his life and after him messing up, his bad character traits and his urge to compensate took over him and made him choose the dark side.
Later he realised what a huge mistake he made and changed sides. It was because of Lily again but I don’t think that makes his acts any less honourable. The circumstances involving Lily didn’t make something out of him that he wouldn’t have been otherwise, but they led to feelings like worry and remorse, therefore addressed his good side and enabled him to choose the right path, even before the Potters died. And the capability of doing good things, has been somewhere inside him all his life.
He also went out of his way many times and saved the life of as many people as he could so he didn’t only concentrate on the original mission of protecting Harry Potter, but tried to do as much as possible. In a conversation with Dumbledore Snape said he recently saw only those die whom he couldn’t save, so it is indeed canon.
Snape’s choices show who he really is: a grey character. He chose to act on his bad side, then he chose to act on his good side. He’s not a saint, but neither is he all bad. And I think that Sirius’ quote is the best proof for that.
So, as I said, I don’t approve of Snape’s decision and I don’t try to excuse his mistakes as they are inexcusable. I also don’t have a problem with people not liking him. But I find it annoying when people hate against him and back up their arguments with ‘information’ that isn’t even canon.
I’m always open for civil discussions, but please stick to the books and the extra information that Joanne K. Rowling provided us with.
Speaking as someone who had a childhood similar enough to Severus’, (just in the abusive and isolated and bullied aspects) here’s why I’m such a firm advocate for Severus: where Severus’ mother didn’t stand up for him or even herself all that much, my father forbade my mother and brothers from hurting me. Where Lily was his only true friend, I at least had a few girls each year to fake friendships with me. Where Sirius and James’ bullying against Severus was unrelenting, I at least fought back, had a fighting chance to fight back. I care about his narrative because it’s my narrative. Or it easily could have been. If the universe was as cruel to me as JK Rowling has been to Snape. I adore the universe she created, and the characters she created, but I respectfully have to say this, and if I ever had the opportunity to say this to her face, I would be honoured to, maybe it’s wishful thinking, but I see the villainy of his in my own self and I have been able to adapt and grow, and he was given no such chance.
Just because Severus Snape was bullied and harassed as child does not mean he as an adult has a free pass to take out all the anger and bitterness he has on the children he was supposed to be teaching.
I’m still waiting for a post complaining about how “being rich, charming and popular doesn’t give you a free pass to make other people’s life a living hell only because they exist”.
Where as I can understand that James Potter was problematic and bullied a boy that was already lonely and came from an alcoholic and probably abusive home, I have nothing that shows me that James Potter as an adult took out his anger on children.
The fact is, James died at 21. He never had a chance to really see the world and grow up. Severus Snape is what, in his mid to late thirties in the Harry Potter series. He is an adult. An adult that was bullied and harassed as a child so should know what kind of damage that does to a child.
Instead he takes his anger and bitterness out on children that were not responsible for the things he had to endure as a child. He traumatized a 13 year old so badly that his Bogart, a creature that takes the form of your worst fear, was his own professor. Not the death eater that tortured his parents into insanity, his teacher.
I don’t care what a person went threw in their life. You don’t take it out on children. Servers Snape never grew up. He’s still an angry, lonely, bitter little boy that’s dedicated his choices and actions in the name of a dead woman.
James Potter was problematic. Severus Snape took his past and anger out on children that reminded him of his past and frustrated him and quite frankly there is nothing worse than harming a child. Mentally or physically and there is no redemption point that was made on his death bed that can make up for 7 years of damage he caused.
Do you think the following is bad:
Which person,’ she [Professor McGonagall] said, her voice shaking,’which abysmally foolish person wrote down this week’s passwords and left them lying around?’ -PoA ch13
‘Longbottom, kindly do not reveal that you can’t even perform a simple Switching Spell in front of anyone from Durmstrang!’ Professor McGonagall barked at the end of one particularly difficult lesson, during which Neville had accidentally transplanted his own ears onto a cactus. -GoF ch 15
or giving detention in the forbidden forest, or leaving a student outside the common room without password (because he lost it) when a killer is running around the castle, or letting an entire house bully a member?
How about this:
How about giving a muggle boy a pigs tail that had to be surgically removed, or making fun of said boy’s weight?Or teaching a class with dangerous creatures while having no idea how to teach or keep the kids safe?
No? how about…:
Spinning a toad around the room really fast as a demonstration or letting a house bully a single student in said house and doing nothing to stop it?
How about almost killing 4 people in one go or keeping important sensitive information (like, your friend being an animagus or secret passageways or the marauders map)?
Teaching a class with creatures that can kill a person with their cries, or make them pass out while in infant stage?
Still no? then how about this:
How about bending the rules in extreme ways for one boy in ways that put down a whole entire house of kids, endangering said kids every year, using people and children as pawns in war, putting Harry with an abusive family, etc.? Dumbledore.
Or the punishments kids used to get until very recently where they were hung by their thumbs and flogged?
Would the above make kids miserable too?
But still I see people complaining only about Snape trying - in a very shitty way - to minimize why he became who he was. Yeah, that doesn’t excuse it but fuck me, will we take that into account or not ALL the shit that happened to him?
After my personal school experiences I say you guys blow everything out of proportion with nowadays mentality of mollycoddling children and just look at how fucked up our society is. Honestly, just look around yourself.
Last but not least: Hogwarts is CLEARLY based on Victorian schools where teachers like Snape were often your best option.
Hi! I’m sorry to jump into this conversation, the-majestic-crystallion, You sound very reasonable in your posts so I wanted to say something as well. I am a fan of both James and Severus and try to see them in as objective a view as possible, though sometimes I can get bitter when the fandom interpretations are too wild. If I do that, I apologize in advance.
You are right James Potter as an adult did not take out his anger on children, though we have to consider he wasn’t exactly around children to take his anger out on. He was an adult for only a few years before he died, and as an adult he never stopped his bullying nor his schemes. In fact, his recklessness with Sirius nearly killed a muggle. As an adult, he didn’t have a job or anything besides “the order” that he really did.
Unfortunately, Severus’ actions were not entirely for Lily (a dead woman as you say). He protected people who had nothing to do with Harry or Lily entirely because he wanted to (see Katie Bell, Hermione, Ron, other Hogwarts students, Draco etc.). He made huge mistakes and spent his life paying for it and never once got the mental help he needed. In fact, it can even be argued that his attitude was due to Dumbledore manipulating him and his role as a spy.
Most importantly you say “there is nothing worse than hurting and traumatizing a child” well Severus Snape was a child. And unlike the children we see in HP through Harry, Severus underwent constant hurt and trauma from the moment he was born up until the moment he died. He was severely abused. You can’t say “i dont’ care what a person went through” and at the same time say “there is nothing worse than hurting and traumatizing a child” the two are paradoxes. Severus Snape was a severely abused and traumatized child who never received help.
Please consider those things before irrationally hating Severus. Thank you.
